September 12th, 2008
In the wake of my post called “Eat the Meat, Spit out the Bones” Pastor Wendell Smith came out with a blog post called “Scandal and Restoration” regarding the Lakeland Revival and the falling of Todd Bently. The base argument of his post is to not get bitter or disillusioned by the fall of a leader.
My only response is if you don’t exalt men so high in the church (senior pastors), but exalt Jesus, when men fall they won’t leave or get bitter because Jesus will never fall. Also, don’t be so flippant and lazy on false doctrine…especially in your own church.
John Piper, on the other hand, also came out with a blog post talking about the issue. I believe his response is a good warning of the false doctrine, including the ones prevalent in the prosperity gospel and word of faith.
Read Wendell’s Blog
Read John Piper’s Blog
September 9th, 2008
Eat the Meat, Spit out the Bones has always been a statement that bothers me. It is thrown out to say we should not worry about some false teaching mixed in with the bible, but just be mature enough to “Eat the Meat, Spit out the Bones”. I have a friend who asks, would you eat a bowl of ice cream if you knew there was a little dung mixed in, even if you knew you wouldn’t taste it? Of course not, and false teaching is like dung. Below is an article that I tend to agree with:
EAT THE MEAT, SPIT OUT THE BONES
There are a lot of clever-sounding sayings that make the rounds among Christians, and one of these is “eat the meat, and spit out the bones.” Many have written to exhort me to do this, and they mean that I shouldn’t worry so much about exposing error. They wonder why I can’t just “eat the meat, and spit out the bones.”
There is a bit of truth to this saying, in that God’s people are always to exercise biblical discernment when hearing sermons or reading Christian books. We are to “prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
But the Bible also twice warns that “a little leaven leaventh the whole lump” (1 Cor. 5:7; Gal. 5:9) and exhorts us to mark and avoid those who teach doctrine contrary to that which we have learned in Scripture (Rom. 16:17). There is great danger in eating the wrong spiritual meat!
What if the meat is rotten or poisoned or hasn’t been cooked or properly stored? The U.S. government regulates how restaurants must cook meat, because undercooked meat is dangerous. When I worked in a restaurant in my youth, I was taught to handle the meat very carefully and to store it properly, because it spoils easily. If you eat meat that is spoiled or poisoned or undercooked, even if you spit out the bones, you will be in trouble. The writings of men like Brian McLaren and Richard Foster and Chuck Colson and Rick Warren contain plenty of rotten meat. Those who advise God’s people to “eat the meat, and spit out the bones,” must explain to us how they know that this “meat” is safe.
Also, what if the bones have splinters or what if you get a bone stuck in your throat? When I was growing up in Florida, I went fishing often with my dad and granddad, and they were careful about which fish they kept and which they threw away, because some had too many bones to eat safely. And Mom was very careful to keep an eye on us when we were eating fish because of the ever-present danger of getting a bone stuck in our throats. This happened from time to time anyway, and it was a very unpleasant thing and, in fact, can be fatal. Likewise, very few Christians are able to wade through sermons or books by compromising preachers on their own and expertly spit out all of the “bones” of error.
And what if you don’t know the difference between meat and bones? A toddler doesn’t know the difference, and if it tries to eat meat and spit out bones, it will quickly be in trouble. Likewise, the average Christian today is far too biblically ignorant and carnal to distinguish properly between truth and cleverly presented error.
My friends, beware of clever sayings that aren’t supported by Scripture.
We live in a shallow, apostate, carnal age, and it behooves us to study the Bible diligently and to think biblically!!!!
Written by David Cloud
|Hat Tip: sermonindex.net|
June 2nd, 2008
Clifton forwarded me an article titled “The Bankruptcy of the Prosperity Gospel:An Exercise in Biblical and Theological Ethics” by David Jones M.Div.; Ph.D. The article outlines 6 major systematic flaws of the prosperity gospel as preached at The City Church and other rapidly growing prosperity churches.
The six major areas he covers are:
- The Theology of the Prosperity Gospel
- Prosperity Theology and the Abrahamic Covenant
- Prosperity Theology and the Atonement
- Prosperity Theology and Giving
- Prosperity Theology and Faith
- The Biblical Interpretation of the Prosperity Gospel
As you can see, these are not minor areas of misuse or error…these are the very foundation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ being messed with, let there be no mistake about it. Below is the section regarding the Abrahamic covenant (see my article on the subject):
Prosperity Theology and the Abrahamic Covenant
The theological basis of the prosperity gospel is the Abrahamic covenant. While this is good in that prosperity theologians recognize that much of Scripture is the record of the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant, it is bad in that they do not maintain an orthodox view of this covenant. Prosperity theologians hold an incorrect view of the inception of the Abrahamic covenant; what is more germane to the present study, however, they hold to an erroneous view concerning the application of the covenant.
Researcher Edward Pousson best stated the prosperity view on the application of the Abrahamic covenant when he wrote, “Christians are Abraham’s spiritual children and heirs to the blessings of faith…. This Abrahamic inheritance is unpacked primarily in terms of material entitlements.” In other words, according to the prosperity gospel, the primary purpose of the Abrahamic covenant was for God to bless Abraham materially. Since believers are now “Abraham’s spiritual children,” they consequently have inherited these financial blessings of the covenant.
Prosperity teacher Kenneth Copeland wrote, “Since God’s Covenant has been established and prosperity is a provision of this covenant, you need to realize that prosperity belongs to you now!” Referring to the prosperity theology of Kenneth Hagin, author Harvey Cox wrote, “Through the crucifixion of Christ, Christians have inherited all the promises made to Abraham, and these include both spiritual and material well-being.†To support this claim, prosperity teachers such as Copeland and Hagin appeal to Gal. 3:14, which says “that the blessings of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus. . . .” While it is not an understatement to say that the problems with this argument are legion, two glaring problems need to be addressed. First, in their appeal to Gal. 3:14, prosperity teachers ignore the second half of the verse, which reads, “That we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” In this verse Paul clearly was reminding the Galatians of the spiritual blessing of salvation, not the material blessing of wealth.
Second, prosperity teachers claim that the conduit through which believers receive Abraham’s blessings is faith. This completely ignores the orthodox understanding that the Abrahamic covenant was an unconditional covenant. That is, the blessings of the Abrahamic covenant were not contingent upon one man’s obedience. Therefore, even if the Abrahamic covenant did apply to Christians, all believers would already be experiencing the material blessings regardless of prosperity theology.
Read the whole article here… It is well worth the read.
UPDATE 6/3/2008: The link was broken, but now it is fixed.
Hat tip: Clifton
April 10th, 2008
Below is an article written by Cameron. He was an intern a few years ago and asked me to post this letter that talks about his conclusions of Generation Interns. I would love it if current or past interns would post their opinions on the article in the comments section.
I have never been an intern at the City Church, but I am married to one. I think I speak for Cameron, but our goal is not that the leaders at The City Church are slandered, harmed, or evil spoken of. We just earnestly desire that God be exalted and to see Him worshiped in Spirit and Truth.
Note: I have made changes per Cameron’s request on 2/3/2009
<Cameron’s Article>
I want to talk briefly about Generation Interns. From 2003-2004 I did Interns and it helped me in many ways. As an ignorant and young Christian, I didn’t even know what the synoptic gospels were, namely, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and they they gave a historical account of Jesus’ life and ministry! I hadn’t done much bible reading up to Interns, and the basic doctrine class was very helpful for me in starting out as a new learner of the Word.
We learned about many great topics such as the nature of God, the canonization of the Bible, doctrine of angels and demons, the Trinity, etc. Every Christian needs to be familiar with these things, and there is no price too great for such knowledge. The ministry activities were also some of the best experiences of my life. I built relationships with people who I’m still very close with. Thanks Facebook!
Now, if I may say, I think I may have liked it if 2 other basic things would have been emphasized in the program. 1. That we are required to uphold God’s holy moral law perfectly and, 2. That we are to be under God’s own eternal wrath if we fail to do so.
If these would have been more emphasized, not just by TCC and Interns, but even by the majority of churches who call themselves Christian, then I think I may have understood more sooner why it is that 3. I am saved by grace. I would have realized that I was saved from God, by God. In other words, that what God (Christ the Judge) demands from me, Christ (the Savior) supplies. I really do wish that all churches, and all Christian teaching programs made sure that these gospel 101 points were emphasized. Simply because, then grace could really be grace. I think that is really the therapy we are all looking for.
In the words of Forrest Gump, “that’s all I have to say about that”.
Humbly and respectfully,
Cameron
Does anyone else out there think these points should be taught and emphasized by Christian churches? Does anyone disagree?
April 8th, 2008
Judah was on the TBN “Praise the Lord” show from TBN with Pastor Steve Munsey as the host at 7:00 PM PST. I found a few clip of Steve Munsey on You Tube in the fall “Praise-A-Thon” for TBN promising people if the give $$$ to TBN all their problems will be solved.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9QKYmxYcrGg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NuydWziggVM&feature=related
The scripture is very clear about these teachers, and the compiler of the first video puts some of the scriptures on the screen as he preaches. It sickens me because they prey on those who are broke, and become wealthy off of their giving with outlandish and unbiblical promises.
I hear the argument that the city church preaches a “balanced” view of prosperity, but they keep the company of the people who cause people to speak evil of the way of truth. All you have to do is turn on the TBN “praise-a-thon” to see the length they will go to twist scripture for money.
As for pastor Judah, it was pretty cool seeing him up there talking about his new book “Dating Delilah”. Even though I disagree with him on the teachings of the city church, I have always liked Judah. If only he could take his speaking skills and passion and be taught by good biblical teachers who are not hyper-faith and hyper-prosperity he could make great gains for Christ. I often wonder how one could come out of a cloud of such teaching when so much of your life is invested in a specific false teaching.
My niece was watching with me, who is unsaved. She made the comment that Judah seemed sincere and passionate. I agree. But I asked her if the suicide bombers who blow themselves up are sincere and passionate. I think she got my point.
It reminded me of a time I was witnessing on the streets when I met a girl who said she was a Christian, so I shared the gospel with her anyway. After I was done, I asked her if she had ever heard the gospel before, and she said no. I then asked her if she still thought she had been born again, but she said no. I asked her where she went to church, she said Generation Church in the University District (under Pastor Judah). I asked if it caused her concern that she was never presented the true gospel and she said yes. I didn’t ask, but I bet she could quote Malachi 3:10 for me though.
What a shame.
The question isn’t if we are passionate, the question is what are we passionate about. We can be sincere, and we can be sincerely wrong. If people aren’t learning about the true gospel when they go to church, what are they learning?
1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
April 7th, 2008
I heard Judah Smith (and his wife Chelsae) will be on the National TBN broadcast at 6:30 PM (not sure if that is Pacific or Eastern time). It was announced by Wendell yesterday before the service.
Anyway, I hope someone gets to watch it at 3:30 and let us know if they are on at that point. If they are, it would be great to get a report of what they are doing, since that is scheduled to be the “praise-a-thon” (view the TBN schedule for today). The 6:30 PST show is Jesse Duplantis, and I doubt they will appear at that point.
March 5th, 2008
I was sitting in my living room visiting with a friend who is a member of the City Church when we got to talking about prosperity and healing in the Bible. I would bring up scripture showing a biblical view of money and the sovereignty of God in healing, but the response I got was that God is a good God and wants to take care of us like an earthly father takes care of his children. I realized this is the theology of Pastor Wendell, Pastor Judah and the City Church. I coined this theology the “Earthly Father Paradigm”. They read the Bible and view God with their “Earthly Father Paradigm” glasses on.
During pastor Wendell’s sermons he often says things like “what earthly father would put sickness on his children to teach them a lesson” or “what earthly father wouldn’t buy good gifts for their children”. He says this in support of their view that God wants to please us.
I have a few questions for the prosperity idea of the “Earthly Father Paradigm”…what earthly father would allow:
- Satan to take away all of Jobs things, put boils on him, kill his children and then torment him with some lippy friends?
- What earthly father would send snakes to bite and kill his children who disobey in the desert, or open the earth to swallow them up?
- What earthly father would tell the neighbor boy to come beat up his kid, destroy all his toys and take him captive for a while to learn a lesson (Israel in Babylon)?
- What earthly father would kill 2 of his children for lying to him about money?
- What earthly father would curse his children to die for only disobeying once (garden of eden)?
- What earthly father would send his own son to die and take unimaginable wrath for deserved criminals (Jesus Christ)?
- What earthly father would stand by and watch 11 of his son’s 12 friends get killed for being a friend of his son?
God did all these things. God’s goal in our life is not to please us and make us healthy and rich, His purpose in our life is to shape and mold us in the image of His Son and to present to His Son a spotless bride. The “Earthly Father Paradigm” shapes and molds God in the image of man and displays a god who is serving mankind…not vice-versa.
As even earthly parents send their kids to chicken-pox parties so their kids will get sick, I believe God allows sickness, poverty and other bad things in our lives to build up our immunization against sin and our flesh. God is not sadistic, but all things work for good for those who love God and are called according to His purposes. The more trouble and sin there is in this would, the more we should have our eyes on eternity and the return of Christ. Unfortunately, the “Earthly Father Paradigm” puts our eyes on ourselves and this life. How can I get blesses, how can I get healed, how can I…
I think the “Earthly Father Paradigm” is a self-serving representation of what some wish God would be for them. God has our eternal best interest in mind, not necessarily our temporal best interest.
I am thankful to God for taking me out of the atmosphere of scurrying around looking to “position myself for blessing” or looking for “the next breakthrough” and rummaging through the bible looking for promises I can lay hold of. I can finally rest in the salvation given to me freely by God through Jesus Christ. The only promise I really care about, I pray God help me to fix my gaze to heaven and not earth.
It causes me to wonder what ways I have tried to mold God in my own image, or to my own liking…I pray for humility to recognize and love God as He has revealed Himself, not how I want Him to be.
February 26th, 2008
I’ll be honest. Doing a blog that challenges the doctrines of a large and popular church in the area is a daunting task. I don’t want to be disobedient to the Lord and I don’t want to be doing it with the wrong motives. After the prosperity with a purpose conference I kind of thought of when Jesus said “let the blind lead the blind”, then I get an email like the one below. I asked Nathan for permission before posting the email, so don’t think just because you send me an email I will post it (although I might).
Also, thank you to others how have also sent emails of encouragement during my time of inactivity – your emails and prayers are very appreciated! I think Nathan’s story is like many out there who see the emptiness of false doctrine and a self-serving form of religion that only puts our eyes on what we can gain in this life, when all we need to gain is Christ.
Hi Craig
I just wanted to share with you some of my story over the past year. I’m an 18-year old living in Ontario, Canada. I was involved with the Pentecostal church for a few years through a local youth group and then their church. I left the Pentecostal church last March after much emotional and some psychological pain and stress.
I was at a youth convention in 2005 where Judah Smith was the speaker, and I found what he had to say really connected with me. Over the next couple years, I began downloading and listening to his podcast sermons, at first only once in a while, but eventually on a weekly basis. I built up a library of Judah’s and other TCC and guest pastors messages that was well over 100.
Through these messages, I effectively became a part of Generation Church despite being thousands of miles away. I loved listening to Judah and Jude Fouquier preach; I enjoyed their elaborate and funny stories, and I always felt that I got some life changing out of each message. Listening to those messages, I believe, brought me a lot closer to God, and made me a lot more enthusiastic about studying my Bible than if I hadn’t heard them.
At the same time, I would sometimes get that little twinge when listening to Judah preach that he seemed to be going off in a weird direction, or might be just a little too arrogant. I’m Anglican-raised, so I guess I have a built in aversion to over-the-top spiritual emotionalism. Anyway, the power of whatever altar call being given at the time was strong enough to convince those doubts to quietly go away. After all, nobody’s perfect, right?
As I mentioned earlier, I went through a long and painful breakup with my local Pentecostal church, which I won’t detail here except to say that it was an extremely difficult time, and a necessary one that brought me closer to God. It was very soon after I left in March 2007 that I stumbled onto your blog. Even thought I had left the Pentecostal church, I was still a loyal disciple of GC, and reading your blog gave me quite the shock. I read the exchange between you and Wendell Smith and had my TCC world rather rocked by it. I didn’t want to accept what you were saying, or I tried to find some kind of explanation for it that would also exonerate TCC and GC. But I kept going back to your blog to read more and more, and the more I read, and the more accounts I was exposed to, the more I saw that TCC was falling deeper and deeper into false teaching¦teachings that I was eagerly lapping up through the podcasts.
Sometime after starting to read the blog, about two months after I started, I just stopped listening to GC messages. It was like a mechanism flipped inside and I just didn’t desire them anymore, where before I craved them like a drug. That’s the best analogy I can come up with; being addicted to Judah’s preaching. While my desire for Judah’s preaching died, the disciplines of Bible study and prayer he helped inspire in me stayed on, ironically. I’ve since gone back and listened to a couple old messages and heard things there I missed before, indications of false teachings and unbiblical doctrines that I was too blinded by to see until later. Having now seen where they’ve gone, I am deeply thankful that God opened my eyes when he did, as it seems things have gone from bad to worse.
I write all this to encourage you, Craig. I enjoy reading your site very much, and I’ve been a bit worried at the lack of posting. I understand we all lead busy lives that take priority, but in case you were feeling really down or discouraged, I want to remind you that you are reaching lives not just in Seattle, but across a continent. The influence of TCC is larger than the city, thanks to the Internet, but so is the reach of your blog I thank God for putting me onto your site. I love the truth, and God used that love, anchored onto your site, to bring me out of my TCC-fueled fantasies and false doctrines. Your open, honest, and humble words, along with many of the loyal commentators, have helped me in my own walk with God. Keep fighting the good fight, keep doing it the way you have been doing it, with humility and truth. Be encouraged, and know that you are being used by God, even when it’s just something as lowly as typing on a keyboard. I’m praying for you Craig. God bless you.
Nathan
February 19th, 2008
I have listened to several sermons by Pastor Wendell and their doctrine on healing has been pretty well laid out in the healing series. I agree with them that healing is for today and that God can miraculously heal today just as Jesus during His earthly ministry. I believe all healing comes from the Lord.
In listening to their sermons and it seems they feel a need to give God a PR job regarding healing. While giving their sermons they say God is a good God, and because He is good he wants to heal everyone in this life and because He is good He will never put sickness on anyone. It seems to me that they have said if God makes people sick, then He is not good. Also, if God does not desire to heal everyone in the here and now, then He is not good. Below are the reasons I think their definition of good needs to be conformed to the bible.
STATEMENT ONE: God will never, ever put sickness on anyone.
To see this is false, all we need to do is read a little bit of the Bible.
- What did God say the punishment for Israel was for not carefully observing His words?
“If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, then the LORD will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues great and prolonged plagues and serious and prolonged sicknesses. Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. Deuteronomy 28:58-60
It sounds like God will make them sick.
- In Numbers, God sent a plague that killed 14,700 of the Israelite people for complaining against Moses and Aaron.
- In 2 Samuel 24 God sent a plague on Israel because David performed a census of the people that killed 70,000 people.
- God struck Uzziah with leprosy for burning incense in the temple in 2 Chronicles 26:19-21.
- In the New Testament we find Christians becoming sick because of the judgment of the Lord regarding communion. See 1 Corinthians 11:29-31. Paul says if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. The only judge I know of is God.
- In Acts 5 we read of Ananias and Sapphira (Christians) who are killed by the Lord for lying to the Spirit. I would rather catch a cold that be killed.
- In Acts 13:7-11 Paul struck blindness (through the power of the Holy Spirit) on a sorcerer.
It does not take much time to see that God does put sickness on people in His sovereignty. His ways are higher than our ways, and if we don’t like an attribute of God we should not make up things contrary to how God has revealed Himself to us. I think the 2nd commandment says something about making a god in another likeness.
One analogy they use is that ‘good earthly father’ analogy that goes something like this – “what father would put sickness on their children to teach them a lesson”. The obvious answer to this is – none. But if we think about it a little further, we see that God’s main purpose isn’t to make us comfortable, but to conform us to the image of His Son. Just as parents send their children to chicken pox parties to make them immune so later in life they won’t get the disease and perhaps die, why wouldn’t God let us get sick or injured if the end result is that we are more sanctified and made closer to the likeness of His Son? What is our main goal here? To live a pain-free life or to be more like Christ?
STATEMENT TWO: It is God’s will that everyone be healed.
The main contention I have with this is that the Bible does not say this plainly anywhere. Yes, God is the God who heals us, and yes God does heal today. The problem with the idea that it is God’s will to heal everyone is that not everyone is healed. Many Christians die of sickness and disease, so does that mean God is not powerful enough to heal them? That is absolutely not the case. The only other option we have then is that we are not doing something right to get healed (lack of faith).
I think the statement above is a sad one to make at a church. They do not think through the true ramifications of their doctrine and the faith of many become shipwrecked. Those who are not healed think they do not have enough faith to be healed…do they have enough faith to be saved?
I think the City Church answer to this is comical. They quote Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
They are saying that when Christians die of sickness that since we know it is God’s will to heal everyone that when God does not heal a Christian who is praying for healing that God made a “secret things” decision.
Let me translate what they are saying “IT IS NOT GODS WILL TO HEAL EVERYONE”. They just don’t want to say it. They want a feel good God who is looking out for our health and wealth, so they make contradictory statements to keep the god who pleases them. If God decides in the “secret things” to not heal someone…it is not His will to heal them.
What is our hope then?
Our hope is in the resurrection of the dead. This world is filled with sin, and sickness and death is the result of a sin filled world. There is not condemnation on the sick, they are just dealing with the outcome of sin in our world (disease and death). If we are sick or healthy we need to continually examine our life in the light of scripture to see if we are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). If we are sick, we should pray for healing and go to the elders for prayer (James 5:14).
Jesus Christ will come again and abolish all sickness and death. We will have a new resurrected body not tainted by sin, disease and death. We should have our eyes on the prize, eternal life. I think Paul said it well:
Philippians 3:10-12
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Preaching that God wants to heal everyone is a good way to fill the pews and get people riled up, but it is not true to scripture.
I think Cameron did a good job explaining the healing verses used by the pastors of the City Church in the following article, it debunks their use of 1 Peter 2:24 and it explains why healing is not guaranteed with communion.
Read The Lord’s Supper at Cameron’s Blog.
To end, I would like to say I do believe God still heals today and there are many miracles done by His hand. That is a statement to refute the claim Pastor Wendell makes that I am an “unbelieving believer”.
February 5th, 2008
I have changed my position over the past few years from being a pre-tribulation view to being a post-tribulation and even flirting Amillenialism. To be honest, I haven’t spent much time on the subject lately and I am a bit rusty…so I thought I would try and stir up the hornet’s nest with a good article about the post-tribulation rapture.
I personally enjoyed this quote (relevant to the comments from people defending the prosperity gospel)…
Those who are not disciples think of blessing only in terms of God giving them things. Those who are disciples recognize that it is just as much blessing – perhaps even more – when God takes them away. Thus we can know whether we are disciples or not.
The Church and The Tribulation — Zac Poonen
We are told in Eph. 3:10 that in the new covenant, God desires to manifest His wisdom through the church to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. From Eph. 6:12, we know that these rulers and authorities in the heavenly places are Satan and his hosts of wickedness who dwell in the second heaven (where they dwell ever since being cast down out of the third heaven, where God dwells – 2 Cor. 12:2)
We know that we are to be Christ’s witnesses unto all men. But here we are told that we have to have a testimony to the evil spirits too. What testimony is this? It is a testimony to the wisdom of God (Eph. 3:10). It is the joyful confession of our spirits that God has ordered everything in our lives according to His perfect wisdom. It is the testimony of lives that have partaken of the wisdom that is from above.
Read the rest of this entry »
Filed under 