John MacArthur Takes on the WOF/Prosperity Gospel
December 29th, 2009
I was directed to John MacArthur’s blog where he has been discussing the prosperity gospel, and the absolute fraud it is. I thought I would link to the articles he has posted. If you follow the prosperity preachers, you might want to check these out. It is a 5 part series (so far), and he shows how this deception is not new. Even Paul Crouch’s son has gone onto the blog to leave comments. I may not agree with John MacArthur on all points of Theology, but we definitely agree on this one.
January 6th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Speaking of “Prosperity Theology,” have you heard about the new City Church library at their Plateau campus? Building a library is a step in the right direction, but they want to make prosperity literature a key component to its shelves.
I used to clean the little library at their Kirkland campus. There was not much to clean because no one ever used it. Sometimes on my breaks I would pull random books off the shelf and read. I found lots of self-help books and WOF lit, but I found it all shallow and cliche.
I hear that TCC is trying to pattern themselves after Mars Hill now. Apparently Judah is trying to work on his exegesis. Wonderful. I worry that they still will never question their roots in the WOF/prosperity movement. How can you strengthen your exegetical capacity when your hermeneutical framework has been blurred by capitalist propaganda?
January 7th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
Everyone needs to check out Gordon Fee on the prosperity gospel!
http://www.havenministries.com/audio/083006-64k.mp3
January 7th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
If they or any other church are going to pattern Mars Hill, they’ll have to get some balls and share the REAL gospel. That means they’ll have to talk more passionately about how we’re all unholy sinners saved from Christ, by Christ, to Christ, and for Christ more then Christ making you rich.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:22 am
…and I heard that little suzy was kissing little Billy by the oak tree at recess…
“Doctrine Talk” has quickly morphed into “Gossip Girls”.
Craig, glad to see you had to dial back 3 years to find a sermon at TCC that you disagree with. Just shows that the real intent here is to find fault. Cameron, in response to your last comment, listen to the recent series’ on Grace, Done and now Galations.
Sounds like you may be the one who needs to grow some balls and perhaps actually listen to something you might agree with for once.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:32 am
Mark,
Have they recanted these false teachings? I haven’t heard. Praise the Lord if they have…I would gladly listen to that. If not, then maybe they have recanted the mystic heresy presented in that sermon quietly? Enlighten us. What has changed in their theology in the past 3 years? Have they cleared out the Benny Hinn books from the library – Marylin Hickey, Dr. Cho, or the non-trinitarian T.D Jakes? I haven’t been in the bookstore lately, what’s the status on those teachings?
This isn’t “Suzy kissing little Buddy” this is God, Christ and Truth…it isn’t a good idea to take it so lightly, this is what Christ died on the cross for and is coming back for a spotless church…not a popular one.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Mark,
Which City Church sermon proclaims that we’re ultimately saved from Christ’s wrath? I know many churches which don’t even know this, let alone preach it. But which City Church sermon shows this? I would be blown away if I heard this from them because I never have after many years, yet I would be excited to hear this from them because that would mean they love the true and full gospel. You seemed to imply that they do after telling me to get some balls and listen, yet after I listened to some sermons I still never heard this ever mentioned in depth.
I think Judah is a talented speaker and is probably a pretty nice person overall but just because he says the word “gospel” a lot in a sermon doesn’t mean the gospel is really being proclaimed. The gospel deals with God’s judgment and I’ve never heard that from TCC. I think it’s because they’re taught to lean away from that type of thinking for some reason.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Loving the attack “waves”. What do you guys do? Wake up every couple of months and decide it’s “potshot day”? You’re in my prayers and I pray that you’ll come to realize that you weren’t brought into the world to be the lone doctrinal police for the Christian church.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Uh…Mark, the blog is here when you are gone you know. You seem to come back every so often. Of course you don’t even address the content of the posts…but do “waves” of silly shallow comments. I think the scriptures speak for themselves. Those who have ears to hear…
January 27th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Cameron, since pride is clearly an issue with you, I’m sure that even if you did hear something you agree with, you may not want to admit it. No use arguing with people like that
January 27th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Mark…the seer of men’s hearts…nice.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Hey craig you’ve got me trumped. You’re clearly the seer of more mens hearts than I seeing as how your whole blog is built on judging them all
January 27th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
Where do I judge their heart or motives? I do what the bible tells us to do, to judge their doctrine…very different. I know they are wrong, I just don’t know why. I have know idea what is in their heart, but I can clearly hear what comes out of their mouths, and that it doesn’t line up with scripture. If I am wrong, man up and make scriptural points, not emotional ones.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
Man up? Me? Who’s taking the easy road hiding behind a blog? Don’t be a coward craig. You man up.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:34 pm
OK, lets meet for coffee and talk about these things.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Let’s! ****@hotmail
January 27th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Mark,
I think you’re conflating “attack” with “Biblical observation”. Instead of showing me where TCC teaches these things or instead of talking about how important these truths are for all Christians (not just churches in Kirkland), you instead dish out ad hominums against me.
You say I’m being the Bible police. Yeah, in a way. Police even observe what’s going on around them. So what? You’re policing my Bible policing. Not with the Bible, however, but with your ad hominum remarks.
Here’s what the Bible teaches so you know where I’m coming from:
Rom 2:16 “This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.”
Also Peter in Acts 2 and Paul in Acts 17 touch on this very point when they give their gospel presentations. People need to start being told Whom they’re ultimately saved from, so that they can also more readily know why they need to be saved.
With regards to your last comment, isn’t the Bible the lone doctrine police for the Christian church? And who upholds that standard? Atheists?
January 27th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
Cameron, since pride is clearly an issue with you, I’m sure that even if you did hear something you agree with, you may not want to admit it. No use arguing with people like that
The gospel wont allow me to disagree with you that I’m prideful. Actually we all are in our own ways.
But instead of you asking me if I agree with those I critique (which thank God I do or I’d be on my way to hell at Joel Olsteens church) you just assume I don’t. I just listened to Judah’s recent sermon today and there was a very powerful part towards the end that I said “amen” to while sitting here alone in my apartment. However, there were many other things I heard that sadly haven’t changed there yet, but I’m patient… and also studied.
January 28th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Cameron,
Whether I’m policing your policing, or whatever you’re trying to say in your first post, the difference is, I’m confronting you directly. I’m not launching an online attack from the peripherals of the ministry or people in question.
And before you go sending an entire congregation “to hell”, I’d like to see your scriptural backing for that as well.
January 28th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Hey Mark,
Did you get my email?
I don’t think anyone is sending or implying the entire TCC congregation is going to hell. I know people who go there and I believe them to be soundly saved. That doesn’t mean that the doctrines taught by the leaders don’t shipwreck the faith of many…and lead people away from the true gospel to a false one.
January 28th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Mark,
I have confronted them directly before about things. I can critique Rick Warren’s teachings or Joel Olsteen’s teachings from a distance and still talk privately or publicly about how they are Scripturally correct or Scripturally off. I don’t always have to contact them by email or call them on the phone first. The same is for TCC because it’s the teachings or lack of teachings I’m critiquing, not them personally.
You say I’m attacking the peripherals of the ministry and people in question. What does that even mean? I’m observing their Biblical teaching and addressing that with the Bible, not my opinions – which Scripture says to do.
And yes, it quite possible that many people attending Joel Olsteen’s church are on their way to hell, and wouldn’t even know it. They don’t proclaim the true Biblical gospel there. And that’s the message that is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1). My Scriptural backing would be Mat 7. Just because people say “Lord Lord” doesn’t mean they’ll enter into heaven (Christ’s presence). How one receives the true gospel (followed by faith and repentance) reveals this to us the best.
You can’t just have “faith” and believe “God” exists, but must have faith in the real God Whom is revealed in the true gospel. Gal 1 says twice that believing any other gospel means one is eternally accursed (even as Judah said recently). But Gal 3:6-14 didactically explains that gospel message. There’s no reason people should be adding to that message, changing it, or withholding part of it. It’s God’s message, not ours.
Now I’m still waiting for you to show me where TCC teaches that we are ultimately saved from Christ, and show me Biblically why I can’t critique wide spread teachings that don’t line up with Scripture.
January 28th, 2010 at 11:01 am
Also, I remember when P. Wendell critiqued Hank Hanegraaf’s character, NOT his teachings, in front of the entire congregation. And this was a mandatory service where everyone, even children, had to attend! He never contact Hank directly.
You’re double standards, and worse your un-Biblical standards, astound me!
January 28th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Oh, P. Wendel also critiqued Hank’s salvation and said he was a false prophet, without giving any Biblical support for it. Hank actually champions the full and true gospel, and doesn’t change it, add to it, or subtract from it. I have greater reason to accept that his wide spread teachings are saving souls, not depriving souls.