Archive for March, 2007
Wednesday, March 28th, 2007
A friend of mine with a web site linked to this CD tract on http://freecdtracts.com/. It is an excellent contrast between the doctrines of Carter Conlon and Joyce Meyer. I think you need to listen to it for a proper description of the clip.
I think it reflects the difference between the biblical view of money and the “word of faith” view of money. Not much more to say, just listen to the clip.
Listen to the clip.
Tags: Carter Conlon, Joyce Meyer, The City Church
Monday, March 26th, 2007
The audio below is from http://www.freecdtracts.com under the heading of “Mammon”. I don’t know who the speaker is, but he claims to be an ex-prosperity preacher who has repented from preaching a false prosperity gospel.
He talks a lot about the love of things, and how we can know if we do love the “things” in our lives. I thought it was good food for thought. I found it very convicting.
Listen to “The love of $$$”
Let me know what you think of the tract.
Tags: Prosperity Gospel
Friday, March 23rd, 2007
I have been researching Calvinism and came across one of the main doctrines of T.U.L.I.P. The point of Calvinism I don’t understand is the “L”. The “L” stands for “limited atonement”.
If you are unfamiliar with Limited Atonement read about it here.
Essentially, Limited Atonement (more recently called Particular Atonement) means that Jesus didn’t die on the cross for the whole world, but only for the elect or predestined. The doctrine teaches that Jesus didn’t die for sinners predestined to hell, but only to redeem the elect of God.
In searching scripture, there are several that refute this doctrine when taken at face value.
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2
The Calvinist’s argument to this is that John meant Jesus didn’t only die for the Jewish elect, but all the elect of the world. I don’t think this is good interpretation of the scripture, since John uses the word “world”. In 1 John he used the word 17 times. Every time he is referring to something other than the elect. Below is an example:
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 1 John 5:19
John never uses the word “world” to mean something other than what we should expect him to mean. He used the same Greed word for “world” every time.
Second, we see in Timothy:
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 1 Timothy 2:4-6
Paul says God’s will is to have all men to be saved. I don’t know how to interpret that any other way than God wishes all men to be saved. It also says Jesus gave Himself a ransom to all. It doesn’t say He gave Himself as a ransom for the elect.
Later in 1 Timothy Paul wrote:
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Timothy 4:10
This scripture should end all doubt to what Paul meant before. He contrasts between “all men” and “those that believe”. He says Jesus is the savior for both. If the Atonement was only for the elect, Jesus would not be called the Savior of those who don’t believe.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
There is no indication that he is just talking about the elect in this passage.
I would like to see the arguments for Limited Atonement in light of these scriptures, so see any other possible interpretations of them. It seems to me these scriptures are clearly pointing to something other than Limited Atonement.
Tags: Calvinism, Election, Salvation
Thursday, March 22nd, 2007
I attended the City Church for 4 years and I had no clue what “word faith” was, let alone if the City Church is a follower of the “word faith” movement.
First I had to learn what “word faith” is. Once I knew the teachings of the movement, I could see it taught at the City Church on a regular basis.
Some may ask, why is it important? If you do not know what the “word faith” teachings are, I would recommend researching the doctrines and roots of the “word faith” movement. In my opinion, they are doctrines of devils and totally distort the nature of our God revealed in the Bible.
Often Pastor Wendell would say something along the lines of “we are a faith church, is there any other kind”?
This is a misleading statement, to imply they are nothing out of the ordinary when in fact they are preaching an unadulterated “word of faith” version of the gospel. They also bring in some of the heavy hitters of the Word Faith movement.
First, lets take a look at the guest speakers they have brought into the church over the years:
- Kenneth (papa) Hagin – The poster boy and founder of the modern word faith
- Marilyn Hickey – Some call her the “fairy godmother” of word faith
- Yonggi Cho – wrote the 4th dimension (teaches Christians visualization as a means of getting what you want from God)
- Oral Roberts (inventor of the “seed faith” heresy)
- T.D. Jakes
The heresies taught by these individuals are well documented from the “little gods” doctrine, to changing the nature and effect of the atonement work of Christ on the cross. These are not lesser individuals in the movement, but teachers in the forefront of “word faith” gospel preaching.
I will get more into the doctrines taught by the City Church themselves, but I will show you how Pastor Wendell answered my question regarding this topic.
3. Word of Faith – We believe at least some of the pastors of the City Church subscribe to the “Word of Faith” doctrine, and have taught it from the pulpit. This doctrine is unscriptural, and I believe attacks the sovereignty of God and exalts the will of man. I have seen too many people hurt by this doctrine at the City Church. I also studied the roots of the doctrine (Hagen/Copeland) and found them to express unscriptural beliefs about the nature of Christians and the nature of God.
[Pastor Wendell's Response]
Exactly what do you believe is unscriptural? Although my background is not from the faith movement, I do believe Romans 10 says we have a “word of faith in our mouths to preach the Gospel. And that we are to speak faith to cirsumstances and situations in our life. Do you not believe that? Our Lord Jesus Himself said we are to speak to mountains with faith.
When you say “too many people have been hurt” by our teaching, can you give me one name or two? And because some people miscontrue the teaching of any preacher, and reap bad fruit in their lives, does that determine that the preacher is wrong? Is every mistake of an individual Christian to be blamed on a pastor, a preacher or a certain church?
You believe we “attack” the sovereignty of God? Have you worshipped with us? Have you heard us pray or prophesy?
If your perspective were accurate, you would know what a balanced view of both God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility we preach.
I will reply to his comments in a later post. His response took a scripture (Romans 10) that doesn’t deal with word of faith to deflect the question. I think further posts will use quotes from the sermons at the City Church where they (either knowingly or not) show their adherence to the word of faith teachings.
If you attend or have attended the City Church, do you think they are of the “word faith” movement?
Tags: The City Church, Wendell Smith, Word of Faith
Monday, March 19th, 2007
This spring GC Conference has T.D. Jakes as their heavy-duty guest speaker. T.D. Jakes is the “bishop” of the Potter’s House ministry in Dallas, Texas that boasts “28,000 strong” in membership. Bishop T.D. Jakes is often seen speaking on Christian television stations and is a well known adherent of the “word of faith” heresy.
You would expect a “word of faith” preacher to speak at the City Church. They commonly bring in such speakers such as Marilyn Hickey, Kenneth Hagin, and Dr. Cho.
The issue with T.D. Jakes is the question of his view on the Trinity.
Here is the view of God from the Potter’s House web site:
God–There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three Manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
This is in language consistent with Oneness Pentecostal churches that deny the trinity. Contrast this with The City Church:
God, Himself
We believe in the Eternal Godhead who has revealed Himself as ONE God existing in THREE persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; distinguishable but indivisible (Matthew 28:19; II Corinthians 13-14).
You can see the difference is in How they define God. The City Church believes in One God in three persons, also known as the Trinity.
T.D. Jakes says there is one God in three manifestations. From what people can tell, that is not the Trinity.
The major cause for concern is T.D.’s unwillingness to clarify his beliefs on this. If he believes in the Trinity, then why doesn’t he just say so.
It is sad that a large church will bring in a teacher that may have a different view of the nature of God. Since when does doctrine hold such low regard in the teaching of our children? It seems more important to bring in someone who is on TV with a large church, than to make sure they hold the same beliefs.
I guess they identify the beliefs they hold dear. The City Church makes sure the speaker adheres to the prosperity gospel (no gospel at all) and word of faith. As long as someone believes that, who cares what their view is of the Trinity and the nature of God?
I hope they have asked Bishop Jakes his stance on the Trinity and received a clear affirmation of the doctrine, but we are left to speculate. T.D. Jakes has not (to my knowledge) affirmed the Trinity with many requests from Christian groups concerned with the statement of faith on his web site.
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. 1 Timothy 4:16
Tags: Generation Church, Pastor Judah Smith, T.D. Jakes, The City Church
Wednesday, March 14th, 2007
In the fall of 2006 I made the decision to leave the City Church in Kirkland because I disagreed with doctrines held by the church. We found a small church in Bellevue, WA and began attending it in October of 2006. After about a month of attending the new church I decided to email Pastor Judah the doctrinal reasons for leaving, not intending my reasons to be taken as full arguments of why I believe those doctrines.
I think the email Pastor Wendell sent back shows some insights on his philosophy of leading a church, and the shallow nature of the scriptures they use for the doctrines they follow.
Here is a link to the email I received from Pastor Wendell.
See my reply to Pastor Wendell Smith here.
Tags: Pastor Wendell Smith, The City Church
Monday, March 12th, 2007
I was taught while attending a “word of faith” church the doctrine that proposes healing was paid for in the atonement of Jesus Christ. I would like to analyze this proposition in light of some scriptures in the Bible.
Just because I don’t believe healing was part of the atonement, does that mean I don’t believe in God healing today? No, I believe God does heal today as a sovereign act of his grace and mercy. I believe all healing is a gift from the Lord, even if it seems natural. I also believe in miraculous and sudden healing by our God!
The doctrine uses several scriptures to bolster their argument of healing in the atonement:
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. Peter 2:24
These scriptures are very convincing of the argument that we should expect healing as part of the atonement work of Christ, and I believed these arguments for quite some time. (more…)
Tags: Healing, The City Church, Wendell Smith
Wednesday, March 7th, 2007
I got an email from the “Young Professionals” group at the City Church in Belltown, and it was inviting me to the Hawaii seminar for Bob Harrison. Here is a description of Bob Harrison from his web site increase.org:
Bob Harrison is America’s leading “Increase Activist.” He is a Best-selling author and noted seminar/conference speaker.
I saw Bob Harrison speak at “Marketplace Ministries” several years ago at the City Church in Kirkland. I don’t remember all he talked about, but I do remember him talking about buying Mercedes, taking trips, mis-using scripture to seek after money and then he sold his Cd’s for $99 and more. I thought it was a waste of time, but people were eating his message up. I guess people like to be told they can be rich and God will help them.
I don’t see any examples from Jesus or the Apostles where we are to lay claim to our inheritance here on earth from the Abrahamic covenant (can you say heresy?). (more…)
Tags: Bob Harrison
Wednesday, March 7th, 2007
I received The City Church email newsletter for March, and they had a “Questions and Answers” section at the bottom of it. The City Church is in Kirkland, WA with Pastor Wendell Smith leading the way. The City Church is over 6,000 members strong.
The first question is below:
Does God afflict us with sickness to teach us things?
No. Sickness comes from the evil one, from the devil, and is an affliction sent from hell to hurt or destroy God’s people and hinder the work of God through them. Just as parents would never want sickness to come upon their children as a means of education, so our Heavenly Father does not want us to be sick. This is why the Lord our Healer (Jehovah Rapha) has provided healing for us through the work of Christ on the cross (see Isaiah 53). And this is why Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil (Acts 10:38). This is also why we have gifts of healings and means of healing in the church (1 Cor 12:9; James 5:14,15) so that God’s people can be healthy and strong and ready for every good work.
The only thing we need to establish to show the above statement in error is an example in the Bible where God does use sickness to teach us things. Here are several.
- What about the fall of man? God used the fall of man (where sickness came from) to punish disobedience and to show us His glory through redemption.
- What did God say the punishment for Israel was for not carefully observing His words?
“If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the LORD will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues ”great and prolonged plagues”and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you.” Deuteronomy 28:58-60
It sounds like God will make them sick…
- In Numbers, God sent a plague that killed 14,700 of the Israelites for complaining against Moses and Aaron.
- In 2 Samuel 24 God sent a plague on Israel because David performed a census of the people that killed 70,000 people.
- God struck Uzziah with leprosy for burning incense in the temple in 2 Chronicles 26:19-21.
- In the New Testament we find Christians becoming sick because of the judgement of the Lord regarding communion. See 1 Corinthians 11:29-31. Paul says if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. The only judge I know of is God.
- In Acts 5 we read of Ananias and Sapphira (Christians) who are killed by the Lord for lying to the Spirit. I would rather catch a cold that be killed.
- In Acts 13:7-11 Paul struck blindness (through the power of the Holy Spirit) on a sorcerer.
From these examples I do see God causing sickness, plagues, and diseases as punishment and for lessons to those who hear about them. I personally see no biblical grounds to claim otherwise. I think those who profess otherwise create their own God in their head, ignoring the example of the Bible that God left us.
Tags: Healing, Sickness, The City Church, Wendell Smith
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