Archive for the ‘City Church Guest Spekers’ Category
Wednesday, September 19th, 2007
I was told by a friend that Mark Driscoll from Mars Hill Church in Seattle preached about a Rabbi who is teaching at a local church. Because of the passion Pastor Mark showed, the sermon caused my friend to decide to leave the City Church. Thank you Pastor Mark.
I listened to Mark Driscoll’s sermon, and it was excellent. I don’t know for sure, but Mark Driscoll could be speaking about the City Church inviting Rabbi Daniel Lapin to preach about old testament prosperity. In the sermon, he tells about hearing an advertisement on Christian radio to come to the church and listen to the Rabbi teach. He preaches from Nehemiah 13 where the Jews allowed pagans to live and preach in the temple, and Nehemiah came back to kick them out. He then tells the congregation of a local church that is doing that today by allowing a Rabbi (who does not follow Christ) to teach the congregation. The City Church is doing exactly that.
I recommend listening to the whole sermon here: http://media.marshillchurch.org/
Select: Anger and Action (Nehemiah 13:1-14)
You can see a small clip of it on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_MLUuNKjZU
In regards to a church having a non-Christian Rabbi teach your church about money, in my opinion it shows which is more important to the church between Jesus Christ and mammon.
Isaiah 30:9-11
That this is a rebellious people,
Lying children,
Children who will not hear the law of the LORD;
Who say to the seers, “Do not see,”
And to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us right things;
Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits.
Get out of the way,
Turn aside from the path,
Cause the Holy One of Israel
To cease from before us.”
Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
For more info on having Rabbi Daniel Lapin teach at the City Church “Prosperity with a Purpose Conference 2007″, see this blog entry.
Tags: Mark Driscoll, Prosperity Gospel, Rabbi
Wednesday, September 12th, 2007
I saw Doug Cotton preached a message titled “A Dream Buster – The Expense of an Offense” and chuckled. I kinda knew what to expect, more preaching on “if you are offended, its your fault, your sin, and your problem”. Translation for you laymen out there “Don’t question your leaders – if you do, that is a huge sin”.
I think having Doug preach such a sermon is ironic. If you don’t know why, see this article. The article will explain why Doug doesn’t talk much about the sin of the “offender”, but brings a lot of condemnation on the “offended”.
I listened to the message, and unfortunately found my suspicions were right.
First, Doug started off by reciting a creed about the Bible and had the church repeat after him…
“Today I’m going to receive from God’s word…be who it says I can be…today I can have what it says I can have…today I can do all it says I can do.” Has anyone seen Joel Osteen lately? I digress…
After opening with the Joel Osteen…um I mean Biblical creed, he gives us the Doug Cotton definition of an offense.
Doug Cotton’s Definition Of An Offense:
To put a stumbling block in the way in which another might trip and fall, to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he aught to trust and obey. To see in another what I disapprove of, and what hinders me, listen, once you take up the offense and look at their fault, it will hinder you from acknowledging his authority and to cause one to judge unfairly or unjustly.
When an offense comes, it comes from a grudge. The French word [for grudge] means grouchy.
Right out of the gates, the finger is pointed to the “offended” not the “offender”. If you are offended, then you are caused to judge unfairly or unjustly – or to desert one you aught to trust and obey. To sum up the Doug Cotton’s definition of being offended is “your just grouchy”.
I would like to say, being offended and taking up a grudge are two different things. Being offended is a benign thing. You can be offended for all sorts of reasons, but you can be offended without taking up a grudge.
I could really pick apart the use of scripture and fallacies brought by making the Bible his personal jigsaw puzzle, but I will just say that Jesus didn’t warn those who were offended, but those who brought offenses. Why does Doug spend so much time warning the people who were offended? Seems unbalanced to me…
Matthew 16:23
But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
Did Jesus have a grudge from the offense? Was the offense a problem for Jesus or Peter? I think it is clear, being offended didn’t bring shame to Jesus.
Matthew 18:7
Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!
Luke 17:1
[ Jesus Warns of Offenses ] Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!”
Once again, “woe to that man by whom the offense comes”. After listening to Doug’s sermon I would think it should read “woe to that man who is offended”.
Romans 16:17
[ Avoid Divisive Persons ] Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
Paul taught to avoid those who are offensive, not to avoid those who are offended. We are also to stick to sound doctrine (see my other posts about this one).
After a quick search of the New Testament, I could not find one place where it says if you are offended you are sinning. I believe being offended by itself is not sinful. I think if we become vindictive and hold a grudge then we start to step over the line.
As Christians we need to focus on the things Christ and the Apostles taught us to focus on. In scripture we are taught to be careful to not offend and ask for forgiveness from those we offend. Also, as Christians, we need to pray for those that offend us and seek reconciliation if they are willing to repent. We are to be concerned for the offender because they are going to have a millstone hung around their neck according to Jesus.
Mark 9:42
[ Jesus Warns of Offenses ] “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.
If we relish that thought of them being punished there is a problem. There is nothing wrong with recognizing the offense, and sometime making them public in hopes of repentance. That is exactly what Paul did when Peter was avoiding the Gentiles around Jews. I’ll follow Paul on this one, not Doug.
Jesus said:
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, “Raca!” shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, “You fool!” shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Matthew 5:22-24
We are not to be angry without cause. We are also to seek reconciliation with a humble heart if we have caused other to be offended.
This type of preaching is commonly used to keep the people who might have questions under control by fear. If you question doctrine, or false teaching then you are labeled as offended, and thus sinning and holding a grudge. I believe the Bible is clear that we are to question what we are taught and to not allow abusive and offending people to be leaders. If this was followed then we wouldn’t have need for such sermons.
Tags: Doug Cotton, The City Church
Friday, August 17th, 2007
This article at The Daily World outlines how the City Church is supporting a pastor ousted by the elders of his church for anger issues in accordance with Paul’s teaching:
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 1 Timothy 3:1-3
I find it interesting that you don’t need to follow the rules if you have the right friends with enough money and power.
I listened to the sermon by Doug Cotton at the City Church called “The God of Breakthrough“. I think if you are going to be an MFI pastor you must preach this exact sermon 100 times before you can plant a church. I can’t distinguish this sermon from most other ones I heard at TCC.
I am not surprised by the “Good ‘ol Boys” club planting a church in competition with the one Cotton left. It reminds me of how Tully’s would place their stores across the street from Starbucks to attract coffee drinkers…I guess MFI needs a revenue center in that area.
What does surprise me is how the “church” has a lawyer as a spokes person. Astounding to me.
See articles about this subject below, I think enough has been said at those locations:
An Inside Look at MFI (City Business Church)
Elders ask Popular Pastor to Resign over Anger Problem (The Daily World)
Lawyers make a bad situation worse (City Business Church)
From what I have read, it seems to me the local eldership had things under control by removing a pastor for biblical reasons. Wendell didn’t like the fact his friend of 30 years (see Daily World article) was getting canned so he sent in the big guns, didn’t get what he liked and now they are planting a competing church in the area.
I wonder if the tithers who are flipping the bill for this ousted pastor’s new church know the full story behind what happened there? Something tells me they are left in the dark.
Shameful.
<Hat Tip City Business Church>
Tags: Aberdeen, Doug Cotton
Monday, July 23rd, 2007
The City Church has invited Rabbi Daniel Lapin to speak at their upcoming money conference they call the “prosperity with a purpose” conference. Last year the main speaker was Leroy Thompson (see this post for more info). For those of you who have not had the pleasure of attending a prosperity conference, let me give you a breakdown of what you can expect.
- They bring in teachers from all over the world to tell you God wants you to be rich.
- They then tell you to give the money to them, and it is as if you gave your money directly to God.
- They take a big offering (many of them).
You might ask yourself, why would they have a Jewish Rabbi teach prosperity?
- Does a Jewish Rabbi believe Jesus is the Son of God? – No
- Does he believe we are saved by grace through Jesus Christ? – No
- Does he believe Jesus rose from the dead? – No
- Does he believe Jesus is the way, the truth and the life? – No
- Does he believe Jesus is returning again? – No
- Does he believe God wants us to make lots of money? – Why yes, so lets have him speak at our conference!
Can you imagine the Apostle Paul inviting a non-Christian Rabbi to speak at his church – and for money no less! Let me summaries it with a scripture:
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
Updated 7/25/2007
In case it wasn’t clear on where Daniel Lapin stood on Jesus Christ (the cornerstone of Christianity) I went to the following web page to see what Rabbi Daniel Lapin said: http://www.towardtradition.org/index.cfm?PAGE_ID=195
This is toward the bottom of the page:
Question: Dear Rabbi, I have heard you and Michael Medved for years and respect you very much for your support of Christianity. What puzzles me is with so much knowledge of Christ and his claims why have you never accepted the Lord Jesus as Savior?
Answer: Hi Bruce Thanks for writing–actually I have very little knowledge of Christ and his claims–I do have a lot of knowledge of the Torah and of Judaism with which I am in the midst of a love affair. I also love America’s Christians… they are the ones who built America and are the ones who give it its durability and beauty. Hope this helps to ‘de-puzzle’ you. Warmly Daniel “your rabbi” Lapin
Tags: Prosperity Gospel, The City Church, Wendell Smith
Tuesday, May 8th, 2007
Last fall, the City Church had their annual “prosperity with a purpose” conference and the keynote speaker was Dr. Leroy Thompson. I did a Google search on him, and there really wasn’t much information. He wrote a book called “Money Cometh”, and it seems he has close affiliations with Creflo A. Dollar.
I listened to his sermon called “Prophetic Ministry On Covenant Wealth” (download it here) given on 10/20/2006 at the City Church’s conference. I am going over this sermon at such a late date because I know this sermon caused several people to leave the City Church. I also believe this shows how far away from scripture this “prosperity doctrine” goes.
Early on in the sermon, he sets the tone by saying we (Christians) have lost the “covenant of wealth” through religion. To understand the covenant of wealth God has for us Leroy proposes that we de-program ourselves of religion and then we can be open to the fact God want us to be wealthy.
Quote from his sermon:
“People love a struggling message, they will fly all over the world to hear a struggling message.”
I found it ironic he was saying such a statement after being flown into a conference about wealth, where there are thousands gathered to hear about how God wants them to be wealthy. I have never heard of a conference about poverty. There are all kinds of conferences on how to make money in the secular world…these “prosperity†conferences is just a way to get God into the business. The reason prosperity preachers have to “restore” this ministry, is because it was never there to begin with.
Definition of “Prophetic Ministry On Covenant Wealth” from Leroy:
“Ministry of spiritual interpretation to bring back what the people of God has lost.”
Utter foolishness.
At 21:20 on the sermon:
“The Holy Spirit is the spirit of wealth.”
Leroy, I’d like to see that scripture please… Please note Leroy was talking about wealth and money here. This is a revelation he has received outside of scripture, and one of the foundations of his false gospel. The entire quote is actually worse in my opinion…if you listen to the sermon, you will know what I mean.
There is so much (pardon my language) crap in this sermon I am just going to list some of the quotes that are just outrageous.
At 53:50 on the audio he says the people there is a “mantle of wealth” and they need to wear it. This mantle gives you financial favor wherever you go.
No scriptures to back this one up.
At 55:54 he tells the congregation to run around the room to receive the “mantle of wealth”. He said “when a man of God gives you instruction you aught to be moving”.
People obeyed this “man of God” and began running around the room to receive the “mantle of wealth”. I had some friends who were there, and this “running around the room to get the mantle of wealth” scared them.
At 58:00 “Tell them, based on my word and based on what you said on my behalf, if they shout or make some kind of movement, from this night forward, whatsoever they do shall prosper.”
- Leroy proclaiming a “thus saith the Lord.”
At 60:00 10 Senior pastors of The City Church are called to the front and are “slain in the spirit” to receive the “mantle of wealth”.
No comment.
At 1:16:00 Leroy Tells the listeners that God showed him in a vision that Cleopatra fainted when she saw the wealth and wisdom of Solomon.
More things God evidently didn’t write in the Bible, but he saved them for Leroy so he could sell more books and speak at conferences.
At this point he also talked about “upward giving”.
“If you give to the poor, you only get back what you give. If you give $13,000 – $13,000 you get back.” He says, you should “give up” to your pastor so you can get their anointing.
I don’t even know where to begin on this one. Any discerning Christian can see the folly in this. I am not aware of any passage in the Bible that tells us to “give up” but constantly admonishes us to give to the poor. I can’t believe he said this, but I guess what do we expect from this false gospel.
“We need respect in the earthly realm, nobody listens to a poor man.”
Um, Leroy…didn’t God use the foolish things of this world to confound the wise?
You can listen to the sermon, it gets worse…trust me. The part where he goes into a fit of laughter that sounded demonic to me…it really creaped me out. I literally had goose bumps when I listened to some of the message it was so frightening.
At the end of the sermon, he waits to collect an offering and then blesses the congregation with the “mantle of wealth”. Basically, he wouldn’t do it unless they first paid up. He says:
“After I receive this offering people are going to receive the Holy Ghost.”
Isn’t that similar to selling the anointing? The Apostle Peter had something to say about that…
Acts 8:17-21 (King James Version)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
It saddens me terribly that there are people who don’t preach the gospel, they preach money. They preach the cross of Christ was a means of us getting earthly wealth. Jesus even told Pilate His kingdom is not of this world. Even scarier, there are loads of Christians who are described by these scriptures:
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Peter 2:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2 Timothy 4:3
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 1 Timothy 6:5
That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: Isaiah 30:8-9
Tags: Dr. Leroy Thompson, Prosperity With a Purpose, The City Church, Wendell Smith
Wednesday, March 28th, 2007
A friend of mine with a web site linked to this CD tract on http://freecdtracts.com/. It is an excellent contrast between the doctrines of Carter Conlon and Joyce Meyer. I think you need to listen to it for a proper description of the clip.
I think it reflects the difference between the biblical view of money and the “word of faith” view of money. Not much more to say, just listen to the clip.
Listen to the clip.
Tags: Carter Conlon, Joyce Meyer, The City Church
Monday, March 19th, 2007
This spring GC Conference has T.D. Jakes as their heavy-duty guest speaker. T.D. Jakes is the “bishop” of the Potter’s House ministry in Dallas, Texas that boasts “28,000 strong” in membership. Bishop T.D. Jakes is often seen speaking on Christian television stations and is a well known adherent of the “word of faith” heresy.
You would expect a “word of faith” preacher to speak at the City Church. They commonly bring in such speakers such as Marilyn Hickey, Kenneth Hagin, and Dr. Cho.
The issue with T.D. Jakes is the question of his view on the Trinity.
Here is the view of God from the Potter’s House web site:
God–There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three Manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
This is in language consistent with Oneness Pentecostal churches that deny the trinity. Contrast this with The City Church:
God, Himself
We believe in the Eternal Godhead who has revealed Himself as ONE God existing in THREE persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; distinguishable but indivisible (Matthew 28:19; II Corinthians 13-14).
You can see the difference is in How they define God. The City Church believes in One God in three persons, also known as the Trinity.
T.D. Jakes says there is one God in three manifestations. From what people can tell, that is not the Trinity.
The major cause for concern is T.D.’s unwillingness to clarify his beliefs on this. If he believes in the Trinity, then why doesn’t he just say so.
It is sad that a large church will bring in a teacher that may have a different view of the nature of God. Since when does doctrine hold such low regard in the teaching of our children? It seems more important to bring in someone who is on TV with a large church, than to make sure they hold the same beliefs.
I guess they identify the beliefs they hold dear. The City Church makes sure the speaker adheres to the prosperity gospel (no gospel at all) and word of faith. As long as someone believes that, who cares what their view is of the Trinity and the nature of God?
I hope they have asked Bishop Jakes his stance on the Trinity and received a clear affirmation of the doctrine, but we are left to speculate. T.D. Jakes has not (to my knowledge) affirmed the Trinity with many requests from Christian groups concerned with the statement of faith on his web site.
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. 1 Timothy 4:16
Tags: Generation Church, Pastor Judah Smith, T.D. Jakes, The City Church
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